ep 01 22:59:18 * paveljanik gives channel operator status to ericb2 Sep 01 22:59:23 paveljanik hi Sep 01 22:59:28 * paveljanik removes channel operator status from paveljanik Sep 01 22:59:29 ericb2 paveljanik: thank you ;-) Sep 01 22:59:36 paveljanik -) Sep 01 23:00:15 shaunmcdonald meeting start? Sep 01 23:00:19 ericb2 I think we can start Sep 01 23:00:33 ericb2 1st september meeting Sep 01 23:00:48 ericb2 Point 1, as usual, last news, and welcome to new devs Sep 01 23:01:35 * maho_ (n=chatzill@softbank219188128080.bbtec.net) has joined #ooo_macport Sep 01 23:02:48 * shaunmcdonald will go away for a bit later Sep 01 23:02:51 ericb2 no new dev ? Sep 01 23:03:33 ericb2 ok, let's start with last native version news Sep 01 23:03:37 ericb2 paveljanik: ? Sep 01 23:03:42 maho_ good !! Sep 01 23:04:21 paveljanik I've started to investigate another new thing we are missing - native file and directory dialogs - Open, Save and Choose folder. Sep 01 23:04:58 paveljanik They are part of so called navigation Services API, I described this a bit in blog entry (AI: add link to the blog entry). Sep 01 23:05:25 paveljanik the latest status as of today is: directory selection (Folder picker) is usable without major issues now. Sep 01 23:06:04 schmidtm paveljanik: is it one call to the filepicker for load, save etc. ? Sep 01 23:06:07 paveljanik The only problem I have with it is cosmetic (for now) - when it should start displaying some directory, it is on the very left side of the windows and it looks strange to me. Sep 01 23:06:20 ericb2 The link: http://blog.janik.cz/archives/2006/08/30/T20_33_16/ Sep 01 23:06:33 ericb2 paveljanik: like some reversed axis ? Sep 01 23:06:41 paveljanik filepicker - file selection is a bit worst. I'll blog about it in a few moments. In short: it crashes, has weird colors etc. Sep 01 23:06:59 paveljanik But the implementation is almost the same as for folder picker. Sep 01 23:07:03 paveljanik schmidtm: sorry? Sep 01 23:07:33 schmidtm paveljanik: i'll check your blog first and get back to you later. Sep 01 23:07:37 ebischoff_mac paveljanik, probably some memory corruption ? Sep 01 23:07:45 ebischoff_mac saying that because of the weird colours Sep 01 23:07:54 paveljanik IIRC fheckl told in the past he is also investigating native dialogs, so I asked him for contribution. Sep 01 23:08:00 paveljanik schmidtm: ok. Sep 01 23:08:12 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: maybe, yes. Sep 01 23:08:38 paveljanik I need another person to review - I hope obr will join again with his good eyes ;-) Sep 01 23:08:38 * fheckl (n=florianh@p213.54.215.185.tisdip.tiscali.de) has joined #ooo_macport Sep 01 23:08:56 paveljanik fheckl: Hi Florian! Was just talking about the folder and file picker. Sep 01 23:08:59 ericb2 Hi fheckl ! Sep 01 23:09:02 fheckl hi all. Sorry for being late Sep 01 23:09:41 paveljanik fheckl: I have just described what I have - implemented Folder picker and half-working/sometimes working file picker. Sep 01 23:09:55 paveljanik I'd like to discuss with you about how to continue etc. Sep 01 23:10:06 fheckl paveljanik: yes, I will send you my code tomorrow Sep 01 23:10:35 paveljanik This is the only native stuff I'm doing right now, other stuff is mino/build related, nothing important. Sep 01 23:10:35 fheckl paveljanik: should we plan that in private? Sep 01 23:10:42 ebischoff_mac where is this fpicker/aqua directory ? Sep 01 23:10:46 paveljanik fheckl: yes, we can. Sep 01 23:11:16 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: it is not yet in CWS - it is not yet ready. I blogged about it yesterday. separated patches are ready for inclusion the directory is not yet. Sep 01 23:11:35 ebischoff_mac ok Sep 01 23:11:43 ebischoff_mac any place we can look at the code ? Sep 01 23:11:52 ericb2 paveljanik: you fixed some events issues with windows too Sep 01 23:12:07 ebischoff_mac "with enough broken eyes, all bugs become less bleak" Sep 01 23:12:16 ebischoff_mac (or something like that ;-) ) Sep 01 23:12:19 paveljanik ericb2: really? ;-) Sep 01 23:12:37 ericb2 paveljanik: yes, we were together Sep 01 23:12:47 paveljanik I do not remember ;-) Sep 01 23:13:12 ebischoff_mac ah yes sorry there is a link, thanks ericb2 Sep 01 23:13:28 ebischoff_mac http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/build/Sources/aquafpicker/fpicker/source/aqua/ Sep 01 23:13:46 ericb2 with Pierre with work on native controls, and did litte progress Sep 01 23:13:53 ericb2 s/with/we/ Sep 01 23:14:20 paveljanik here is the blog link: http://blog.janik.cz/archives/2006/09/01/T23_02_05/ Sep 01 23:14:31 ericb2 e.g. : Sep 01 23:14:58 ericb2 http://eric.bachard.free.fr/mac/aquavcl/screenshots/scrollbar_01sept/scrollbar02.jpg Sep 01 23:15:28 ericb2 it does not work as expected, but we now use HITheme Sep 01 23:15:59 ericb2 aliscafo: can you complete ? Sep 01 23:16:05 fheckl is HITheme 10.3 compatible? Sep 01 23:16:06 aliscafo ericb2: sure Sep 01 23:16:21 aliscafo ericb2: I worked on the buttons mostly Sep 01 23:16:57 ericb2 fheckl: yes, at least for what we use Sep 01 23:17:14 aliscafo I wrote a small hack that allows pushbuttons (ok/cancel...) to have a height of 20px like apple recommends, needs some testing to make sure it works everywhere Sep 01 23:17:19 fheckl ericb2: ok, good. Sep 01 23:17:39 ebischoff_mac paveljanik, wow that's rather a big piece of code Sep 01 23:17:39 ericb2 fheckl: at least the macros saying it is are present in Theme.h Sep 01 23:17:45 aliscafo Otherwise small buttons draw as bevel buttons (square buttons) instead of push buttons Sep 01 23:17:58 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: mostly cut&pasting/infrastructure, really. Sep 01 23:18:06 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 01 23:18:10 aliscafo finally I implemented the list box control but it needs some work Sep 01 23:18:25 paveljanik aliscafo: do not forget to blog with screenshots :-) Sep 01 23:18:31 aliscafo paveljanik: i will Sep 01 23:19:01 aliscafo here is a screenshot to give you an idea http://www.aliscafo.com/OOo/Images/2006-09-01.png Sep 01 23:19:27 paveljanik BTW - I added to my TODO list for weekend to commit the basic keyboard and mouse wheel events support after cleaning them. We should start feeding the code into CWS to get broader testing. Sep 01 23:19:53 ericb2 BTW : with Pieer we need code sample for controls. Links are welcome Sep 01 23:20:26 paveljanik aliscafo: who renders text on buttons e.g.? It is VCL not HITheme, right? Sep 01 23:21:12 aliscafo paveljanik: right now its vcl I haven't been able to access the "caption" argument to do something with the text in drawnativecontrols Sep 01 23:21:18 ericb2 aliscafo: is it the "OUString ?" Sep 01 23:21:23 paveljanik aliscafo: the screenshot looks brilliant :-) Sep 01 23:21:47 paveljanik aliscafo: IIRC it is not passed to that function at all... Sep 01 23:22:12 ebischoff_mac indeed (brilliant) Sep 01 23:22:17 ericb2 paveljanik: how does it work ? Sep 01 23:22:28 aliscafo paveljanik: when I want to print it, it is blank indeed Sep 01 23:22:42 paveljanik ericb2: drawnativecontrol draws the control and VCL adds it above it. Sep 01 23:23:07 aliscafo paveljanik: how can I access the text and the position of the text Sep 01 23:23:12 ericb2 paveljanik: using textlayout ? Sep 01 23:23:31 paveljanik ericb2: e.g. button.cxx contains: Sep 01 23:23:43 paveljanik bNativeOK = DrawNativeControl( CTRL_PUSHBUTTON, PART_ENTIRE_CONTROL, aCtrlRegion, nState, Sep 01 23:23:43 paveljanik aControlValue, rtl::OUString()/*PushButton::GetText()*/ ); Sep 01 23:23:57 paveljanik -> ::GetText() is not passed to the function at all. Sep 01 23:24:04 ericb2 paveljanik: ok Sep 01 23:24:16 aliscafo paveljanik: can we modify the function so the text is passed? Sep 01 23:24:16 paveljanik aliscafo: I do not know yet. I haven't investigated it yet. Sep 01 23:24:24 ebischoff_mac does it work with a fixed string ? Sep 01 23:24:34 paveljanik aliscafo: for testing: sure. But we have to ask ssa why it is commented. Sep 01 23:24:43 aliscafo paveljanik: actually the position would be more important Sep 01 23:25:11 * ericb2 noticed buttons.cxx Sep 01 23:27:33 ericb2 paveljanik: where is loacated buttons.cxx ? Sep 01 23:27:34 paveljanik looks like text labels are drawn using OutputDevice::DrawCtrlText. Sep 01 23:27:50 paveljanik ericb2: find vcl -name button*cxx will tell you. Sep 01 23:28:02 paveljanik OK, any other native related news? Sep 01 23:28:13 * paveljanik wants to go to bed before 01:00 ;-) Sep 01 23:28:45 paveljanik aliscafo: do you have a plan to clean the code and prepare it for inclusion/testing by others with description what is it about etc? Sep 01 23:28:57 aliscafo paveljanik: sure, i can do that Sep 01 23:29:10 paveljanik when we are talking about buttons - I have seen that checkbutton when first checked, is still blue after unchecking... Sep 01 23:29:32 paveljanik aliscafo: can you do that over weekend or next week? Sep 01 23:29:34 aliscafo paveljanik: i know there must be some double drawing going on Sep 01 23:29:37 aliscafo paveljanik: yes Sep 01 23:29:46 * shaunmcdonald will be back soon Sep 01 23:30:15 paveljanik ok. Anyone else? Sep 01 23:30:27 ebischoff_mac a question Sep 01 23:30:39 ebischoff_mac if my build finishes before OOo 4.5 is out Sep 01 23:30:54 ebischoff_mac any area where I can help in, say, one afternoon ? Sep 01 23:30:55 ericb2 :-) Sep 01 23:30:59 schmidtm ebischoff_mac: it will! Sep 01 23:31:08 * ebischoff_mac is desperate Sep 01 23:31:14 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 01 23:31:35 ericb2 other news ? Sep 01 23:31:49 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: what about that checkbox problem? Sep 01 23:31:59 ebischoff_mac short description? Sep 01 23:32:04 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: or splashscreen? I have seen it only once :-((( Sep 01 23:32:16 ebischoff_mac splash sounds cool Sep 01 23:32:25 ebischoff_mac but your svdem does a splash screen Sep 01 23:32:30 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: see above - when it is checked on the dialog start and you uncheck it, it is still blue, but should be gray. Sep 01 23:32:39 ebischoff_mac do you really need me for that ? ;-) Sep 01 23:32:41 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: nono... at least not for me ;-) Sep 01 23:32:49 ebischoff_mac aaah Sep 01 23:32:49 * shaunmcdonald is back for now Sep 01 23:32:52 ebischoff_mac I did not grasp Sep 01 23:33:04 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: but soffice.bin does not display it (at least for me). As I said. I have seen it only once! Sep 01 23:33:19 ebischoff_mac as you want Sep 01 23:33:26 ebischoff_mac I can take one of both Sep 01 23:33:31 ebischoff_mac splash is okay Sep 01 23:33:34 ericb2 About native, maybe I can add : my native powerpc build has been tested on several machines without X11 -> it works Sep 01 23:33:44 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: OK, will be in the meeting log :-) Sep 01 23:33:51 ebischoff_mac aaargh Sep 01 23:33:57 * ebischoff_mac is trapped like a mouse Sep 01 23:34:00 alexispigeon one question about native OOo Sep 01 23:34:00 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 01 23:34:05 shaunmcdonald if ooo is fast enough starting up, I see no reason for worrying about the splash screen not appearing Sep 01 23:34:10 ericb2 alexispigeon: yes Sep 01 23:34:22 alexispigeon is there any plan to make some builds "public" Sep 01 23:34:36 alexispigeon at least just for "playing around" purposes Sep 01 23:34:40 shaunmcdonald alexispigeon: that's what I'm wanting Sep 01 23:34:43 paveljanik alexispigeon: we can upload some builds, yes, but the problem is that starting it is not easy now. Sep 01 23:34:44 ericb2 alexispigeon: not currently Sep 01 23:34:47 ebischoff_mac and get shot with criticism ? ;-) Sep 01 23:34:51 paveljanik this is another point on our today agenda. Sep 01 23:35:04 shaunmcdonald once it is easy to start Sep 01 23:35:23 alexispigeon paveljanik : Point 4: Strategy for the native port ? Sep 01 23:35:25 shaunmcdonald then put out a toy Sep 01 23:35:28 paveljanik I'd prefer to have public build available as soon as we have packaging fixed so it can be started as X11 OOo.... Sep 01 23:35:43 paveljanik alexispigeon: Decide what to do with packaging. Continue with current drag and drop install or move to the package installer. [[1]] Sep 01 23:35:53 ericb2 paveljanik: shall I commit the change to avoid X11 request or not ? Sep 01 23:35:59 fheckl I agree fully with paveljanik Sep 01 23:36:07 shaunmcdonald that's another point, I wanted to bring up Sep 01 23:36:16 alexispigeon i was more thinking of dirty builds that would require some knowledge to get installed and running Sep 01 23:36:30 paveljanik ericb2: no, because we will use soffice.bin as an executable name anyway - droplet will be for X11 only. Sep 01 23:36:44 ericb2 paveljanik: even for new bundle ? Sep 01 23:36:51 paveljanik alexispigeon: ah, we can have them of course. But I still prefer to wait a bit, really. Sep 01 23:36:56 ebischoff_mac paveljanik already spends much time in helping build-impaired people like me... do we went to add an extra load ? Sep 01 23:37:04 alexispigeon but still to have an idea how aqua looks like live, and not only through screenshots. so frustrating these still pictures... Sep 01 23:37:08 shaunmcdonald what we need to the build process to be able to build aqua so that it will run out of the box Sep 01 23:37:16 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: yes, this is the point. Sep 01 23:37:39 paveljanik There is no problem to make it available but to handle the feedback. We are nto yet ready to handle it, because there are amny issues. Sep 01 23:37:46 aliscafo do we plan to support panther with the native version? Sep 01 23:38:01 ebischoff_mac alexispigeon, do a video ? ;-) Sep 01 23:38:09 ebischoff_mac like the sexy XGL ones ;-) Sep 01 23:38:17 ericb2 aliscafo: breaks scheduled in dtrans and ..don't remember Sep 01 23:38:20 alexispigeon ebischoff_mac: ;) Sep 01 23:38:22 fheckl aliscafo: that's another point to discuss Sep 01 23:38:47 aliscafo ericb2: fheckl just wondering since some of my code needs tiger Sep 01 23:39:08 paveljanik m personal opinion: we will not be ready when leopard comes to business, so Tiger should be base for us anyway. Sep 01 23:39:24 aliscafo paveljanik: i agree Sep 01 23:39:34 paveljanik but if there is a problem with Panther, we can investigate it. With lower priority. The highest prio is to get native on Tiger+. Sep 01 23:39:36 schmidtm i think we should really have the build in a decent shape, have good documentation about it, and some more or less stable binaries *before* doing any public builds. It's so easy to ruin your reputation... Sep 01 23:39:42 ebischoff_mac i agree... even though leopard is only for 2007 Sep 01 23:39:58 ericb2 fheckl: build is IMHO possible, but I had to hack in dtrans, because something Java is not in Panther Sep 01 23:40:04 maho_ paveljanik : I agree Sep 01 23:40:58 ericb2 schmidtm: present a demo is possible without ruin anything Sep 01 23:41:25 paveljanik ericb2: yes, but how will you answer to 1st question: "Where can we download it?" Sep 01 23:41:33 ericb2 paveljanik: when ready Sep 01 23:41:36 ebischoff_mac it's easier to submit a binary and let people run it, rather than have them do difficult builds Sep 01 23:41:37 schmidtm ericb2: yes, shure - and this needs to be done on tradeshows. But not a public release for everyone. Sep 01 23:41:50 ericb2 schmidtm: obviously Sep 01 23:42:10 ebischoff_mac schmidtm, I agree Sep 01 23:42:14 paveljanik good, anything else native related? Sep 01 23:42:37 ericb2 Point 2 is X11 version: upcoming release of 2.0.4, new issues, build breaker on PPC Sep 01 23:42:53 maho_ which issue? Sep 01 23:43:03 maho_ OOD680_m2? Sep 01 23:43:14 shaunmcdonald it was mailed out by you maho Sep 01 23:43:20 ericb2 maho_: that's the question: make a point for the one not aware Sep 01 23:43:41 paveljanik btw - m3 is already tagged - go build it on X11! Sep 01 23:43:45 maho_ aha :) Sep 01 23:43:54 ericb2 paveljanik: menus are .. ? Sep 01 23:44:01 * paveljanik already finished builds on all Linuxes. Sep 01 23:44:01 ericb2 localized . Sep 01 23:44:04 ericb2 ? Sep 01 23:44:08 maho_ One issue is that will be fixed in m3... Sep 01 23:44:09 paveljanik ericb2: menus are wrong in m182... Sep 01 23:44:19 paveljanik m2 was OK. Sep 01 23:44:41 maho_ http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=68785 Sep 01 23:44:51 maho_ okay Sep 01 23:45:16 shaunmcdonald maho_: you just beat me to it Sep 01 23:45:16 ericb2 maho_: yes, oliver did a great fix Sep 01 23:45:34 paveljanik maho_: so you can VERIFY and CLOSE that issue :-) Sep 01 23:45:47 maho_ I'll do it very soon. Sep 01 23:46:11 paveljanik maho_: thanks. Sep 01 23:47:24 paveljanik that's all for "old" X11 port? ;-) Sep 01 23:47:26 ericb2 paveljanik: what happens with http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=69143 ? Sep 01 23:48:26 ericb2 paveljanik: I proposed a fix on mac@porting list, and it was not complete. Does anyone have a better solution ? Sep 01 23:48:27 paveljanik we have to fix it :-) IIRC shaunmcdonald volunteered to investigate AppleScript ;-) Sep 01 23:48:42 ericb2 paveljanik: is it possible to fix any fantasy ? Sep 01 23:48:53 ericb2 paveljanik: such pathnames are a bit .. Sep 01 23:49:09 ebischoff_mac I love such athnames Sep 01 23:49:09 paveljanik ericb2: sure. But Mac users... ;-) Sep 01 23:49:16 ericb2 just $ \ ^ and ` are missing Sep 01 23:49:24 ebischoff_mac I am a mac user, basically ;-) Sep 01 23:49:48 ebischoff_mac really, and in unix too you can use almost anything Sep 01 23:50:00 ebischoff_mac only ms-dos is broken in this respect Sep 01 23:50:01 shaunmcdonald ericb2: this issue is a problem with the command Sep 01 23:50:03 shaunmcdonald set theFilePath to "'" & (POSIX path of theDocument) & "'" Sep 01 23:50:17 shaunmcdonald which does not escape certain character properly Sep 01 23:50:21 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: please use the issue for comments so we have them stored at one place. Sep 01 23:50:38 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I have tried a lot quote " ... etc Sep 01 23:50:41 shaunmcdonald we need to do some fancy search and replace on the file name Sep 01 23:50:46 ebischoff_mac joys of quoting ;-) Sep 01 23:50:59 shaunmcdonald the quoting doesn't work Sep 01 23:51:10 ebischoff_mac what shell is it ? Sep 01 23:51:14 ericb2 when 2.0.4 is scheduled for QA ? Sep 01 23:51:34 shaunmcdonald the terminal auto completion with the tab is what we need, as this does it properly Sep 01 23:51:47 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 01 23:51:51 paveljanik IIRC RC1 will be ready on weekend or on Monday... Sep 01 23:51:59 ericb2 paveljanik: thank's Sep 01 23:52:03 paveljanik at least this is the latest info I have. Sep 01 23:52:39 ebischoff_mac sed 's:\'"?:\\&:g' ;-) Sep 01 23:53:03 ebischoff_mac adds a \ before every quote character Sep 01 23:53:14 ebischoff_mac that's what the terminal autocompletion does Sep 01 23:53:21 ericb2 no other questions about X11 version ? Sep 01 23:53:34 paveljanik I have one. Sep 01 23:54:06 paveljanik See #i68869# - I'd like to ask if maho_ can do one quick build to test it for me. Sep 01 23:54:32 paveljanik just remove -lX11 from *CUI* lib settings in unxmacx.mk. Sep 01 23:54:57 paveljanik I need it also for other issue - in aquavcl01 we have many places adding -framework Carbon -framework Cocoa etc. This is wrong. Sep 01 23:54:59 ericb2 yes, good idea Sep 01 23:55:43 paveljanik these libs should be mentioned in *GUI* in unxmacx.mk and the makefile.mk that need them should specify TARGETTYPE=GUI or something similar - i do not remember correct name now. Sep 01 23:55:43 ericb2 paveljanik: why an issue for aquavcl01 ? Sep 01 23:56:12 ericb2 paveljanik: ok, progressive changes ? Sep 01 23:56:17 paveljanik this is general issue - I already reported it for VCL/X11 - there are many -lX11 in vcl *now*. Sep 01 23:56:19 paveljanik yes. Sep 01 23:56:32 paveljanik we can hack -frameworks now ;-) Sep 01 23:56:54 ericb2 No other question ? Sep 01 23:57:02 ericb2 Point 3: our tinderbox status/usage (machine spec, usability for fast remote building) Sep 01 23:57:23 ericb2 FYI, I have powered on the machine yesterday Sep 01 23:58:13 paveljanik ericb2: sam' told me he does nto have ssh access to it -> it is unusable. Sep 01 23:58:33 ericb2 paveljanik: ok, so what do you propose Sep 01 23:58:40 schmidtm can you guys shed some light where these tinderbox machines come from? Sep 01 23:59:00 ebischoff_mac let me guess : apple ? Sep 01 23:59:03 paveljanik find some location where it can be usable. Preferably for all who need another machine to tes, fast build machine etc. Sep 01 23:59:11 schmidtm i mean just some background ... Sep 01 23:59:16 ericb2 paveljanik: OOoCon is a good opportunity to move it in another place Sep 01 23:59:45 maho_ paveljanik : I'll ask Miyahara-san about it. He donated two Macs for me ;) Sep 02 00:00:23 paveljanik maho_: we must be able to efficiently use all machines we have - and now we have one that is not used at all... Sep 02 00:00:39 maho_ aha Sep 02 00:00:59 ericb2 paveljanik: the problem is our security policy in the school Sep 02 00:01:11 paveljanik ericb2: so please find another location for it. Sep 02 00:01:18 ericb2 paveljanik: please propose one Sep 02 00:01:37 paveljanik maybe Sun Hamburg? Sep 02 00:01:47 maho_ Oh that's very nice!! Sep 02 00:01:48 paveljanik we should discuss with stx12. Sep 02 00:01:57 ericb2 paveljanik: if someone can take it Sep 02 00:02:12 paveljanik or I think fipa can host it as well. Sep 02 00:03:12 paveljanik but lets solve it - we should be able to leverage the donation, not hide it and not use it. Sep 02 00:03:21 * fredv78 (n=Fred@sge78-1-82-228-21-87.fbx.proxad.net) has left #ooo_macport Sep 02 00:03:46 ericb2 paveljanik: Hamburg is IMO the better solution Sep 02 00:04:03 paveljanik yes, agreed. Sun devs can then use it etc. etc. Sep 02 00:04:05 ebischoff_mac we already have a couple of machines here in the university of strasbourg (debian mirrors etc) but the problem is the same : what about security ? Sep 02 00:04:30 ericb2 ebischoff_mac: that's the reason why we cannot have ssh access Sep 02 00:04:36 paveljanik local, trusted users only. no data... Sep 02 00:04:52 ebischoff_mac oh we could have that... I was meaning physical security Sep 02 00:04:55 paveljanik this is technical issue. Sep 02 00:05:07 ebischoff_mac what if it gets stolen and so on Sep 02 00:05:26 paveljanik this is really out of the scope now :-) Sep 02 00:05:42 paveljanik or there can be some bomb attack etc. Sep 02 00:06:25 paveljanik AI for ericb2 to ask stx12 next week? ;-) Sep 02 00:06:38 ericb2 paveljanik: AI ? Sep 02 00:07:02 paveljanik it is a shame that obr is not here. I think we can ask him first... Sep 02 00:07:04 paveljanik action item. Sep 02 00:07:12 ericb2 paveljanik: ah :-) Sep 02 00:07:42 ericb2 paveljanik: you can ask too Sep 02 00:07:56 paveljanik it would be nice if we can access/use it after OOoCon... Sep 02 00:08:12 paveljanik I do not know the size of machine, where it is now etc... Sep 02 00:08:20 ericb2 paveljanik: no problem, I'll advertise we stop, and take it fro my office. Simple Sep 02 00:08:39 ericb2 paveljanik: physically, in my ofice, at school Sep 02 00:08:46 schmidtm paveljanik: you won't get inbound ssh access, if the boxes are located inside the Sun Network. Sep 02 00:10:11 paveljanik schmidtm: DMZ etc. it can be the same as with ooo.services.openoffice.org. Sep 02 00:10:34 paveljanik this is again technical detail to be solved :-) We do not know details, so we can't solve it now. Sep 02 00:10:53 schmidtm paveljanik. yep - you're right. Sep 02 00:11:11 paveljanik ok, next point? Sep 02 00:11:42 ericb2 about other machines, I have discussed with M. Suter about an access to a big machine Sep 02 00:11:59 ericb2 discussion to be continued in Paris, soon Sep 02 00:12:28 ericb2 precisely: a remote access Sep 02 00:13:05 paveljanik good Sep 02 00:13:20 ericb2 Point 4: Strategy for the native port Sep 02 00:13:32 ericb2 for that, Iprepared a little domcument Sep 02 00:13:37 ericb2 document Sep 02 00:13:49 ericb2 http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Ericb#Strategy_for_native_port Sep 02 00:14:11 ericb2 Possible actions / Who / What /When Sep 02 00:14:36 ericb2 the purpose was to provide a support to the discussion Sep 02 00:16:35 ericb2 of course, some parts can be used to build a new document Sep 02 00:16:37 shaunmcdonald ericb2: not sure about point 2 of identify us Sep 02 00:17:01 shaunmcdonald ericb2: where is the site? Just some holding page Sep 02 00:17:03 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: I think this is important to give us a face Sep 02 00:17:14 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: frapr.com something :-) Sep 02 00:17:24 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: maybe Google stuff Sep 02 00:17:41 shaunmcdonald ericb2: how about having a developer page on the porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/ ? Sep 02 00:17:55 shaunmcdonald ericb2: that would have photos of us? Sep 02 00:18:08 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: yes, no problem Sep 02 00:18:14 shaunmcdonald ericb2: rather than have them on an external site Sep 02 00:18:22 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: indeed Sep 02 00:18:34 shaunmcdonald in some way that are too many thing spread out Sep 02 00:18:40 paveljanik cs project has http://cs.openoffice.org/people.html Sep 02 00:18:42 shaunmcdonald some consolidation is needed Sep 02 00:18:49 paveljanik +1 Sep 02 00:18:55 schmidtm +1 Sep 02 00:19:01 maho_ +1 Sep 02 00:19:16 ericb2 paveljanik: perfect Sep 02 00:19:21 ericb2 +1 for me too Sep 02 00:19:29 shaunmcdonald +1 Sep 02 00:19:29 ebischoff_mac yeah sure Sep 02 00:19:37 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: will you take an AI for this? Sep 02 00:19:40 ericb2 some photos are ...great :-) Sep 02 00:20:04 shaunmcdonald no objections, so we will need some photos, are we all going to ooocon Sep 02 00:20:18 ebischoff_mac ah I know lukas tinkl already Sep 02 00:20:23 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: AI? Sep 02 00:20:35 * ericb2 will take some photos, yes Sep 02 00:20:39 paveljanik we can start there and ask for photos of other after the OOoCon. Sep 02 00:20:50 maho_ no I'm not going to go OOoCon :( Sep 02 00:20:51 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: action item. Sep 02 00:20:53 shaunmcdonald sorry, i've not caught up with all the acronyms yet Sep 02 00:21:05 maho_ but I'll send eric(?) for my photo ;) Sep 02 00:21:07 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: yes to AI Sep 02 00:21:11 ericb2 maho_: yes Sep 02 00:21:15 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: thanks. Sep 02 00:21:38 ebischoff_mac shaunmcdonald, artificial intelligence Sep 02 00:21:45 shaunmcdonald lol Sep 02 00:21:50 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 02 00:22:23 maho_ :) Sep 02 00:22:29 ericb2 No remarks about tasks, urgency ...and progression ? Sep 02 00:22:37 paveljanik to the rest of eric's proposal: we should share the work so others are informed, we should collect and describe what we are working on etc. Sep 02 00:22:46 paveljanik tasks etc. should be (again) in TODO. Sep 02 00:22:58 paveljanik who mainstains TODO? Sep 02 00:23:00 paveljanik where it is? Sep 02 00:23:01 ericb2 paveljanik: yes, I wrote it ;-) Sep 02 00:23:11 ericb2 Update Todo list regularly -> needs some love these days ... Sep 02 00:23:27 paveljanik the maintainer should fill new info etc. Sep 02 00:23:41 paveljanik writing document is easy. Maintaining it is not... Sep 02 00:23:56 ebischoff_mac it's a blogger who says that ... Sep 02 00:23:57 * paveljanik maintains l10n.openoffice.org/languages.html ... Sep 02 00:24:27 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Porting_-_Work_Areas/Todo%27s Sep 02 00:24:46 schmidtm since we're dealing with a wiki - everyone maintains it. Fair enought? Sep 02 00:24:59 shaunmcdonald schmidtm: agreed Sep 02 00:25:33 paveljanik schmidtm: no. Everyone *can* maintain it. It is like everyone *can* eat... Sep 02 00:25:55 paveljanik but we have to find someone responsible for it. Sep 02 00:26:09 maho_ ericb2 * Sep 02 00:26:12 maho_ ericb2 ? Sep 02 00:26:16 schmidtm paveljanik: I got the concept ;-) ... Sep 02 00:27:06 ericb2 maho_: I'd prefer see every tasks maintained by it's responsive Sep 02 00:27:25 ericb2 responsible Sep 02 00:27:35 paveljanik so who is reponsible for TODO? Sep 02 00:27:37 paveljanik ;-) Sep 02 00:28:29 ericb2 IMHO, it is not possible to maintain a topic for someone else Sep 02 00:28:31 shaunmcdonald typical, no one is stepping forward to take on the role ;-) Sep 02 00:28:46 maho_ shaunmcdonald : lol Sep 02 00:28:58 paveljanik we should not invent too many *meta* work for developers... Sep 02 00:29:00 ericb2 but everyone owner of a topic, should maintain it Sep 02 00:29:14 ebischoff_mac agree, everyone should write about what he does and must get hit on the fingers if he does not Sep 02 00:29:23 paveljanik When i describe something in blog/mail, I do not want to think about updating same random wiki page or whatever... Sep 02 00:29:23 ebischoff_mac wikis are good for that Sep 02 00:29:26 ericb2 paveljanik: is it meta work ? Maybe bad organisation Sep 02 00:29:50 ericb2 ebischoff_mac: TODO page is a wiki ;-) Sep 02 00:29:55 paveljanik code -> desciption -> update TODO? Everything from half of description up is metawork. Sep 02 00:30:06 ebischoff_mac ericb2, I did not say the contrary Sep 02 00:30:23 paveljanik description is *usefull* meta work. Sep 02 00:30:31 ebischoff_mac ;-) Sep 02 00:30:47 paveljanik I think it would be better to update TODO according to the latest meeting notes by someoen. Sep 02 00:30:53 paveljanik I do not volunteer though. Sep 02 00:30:57 ericb2 :) Sep 02 00:31:39 schmidtm since the TODO is more or less a list of who-does-what it can be done be everyone itself. Sep 02 00:31:58 shaunmcdonald i have done a couple of updates in the past Sep 02 00:32:41 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: thanks for them ;-) And also for future updates :-) Sep 02 00:32:57 fheckl shaunmacdonald: so you are the volunteer! Congratulations :) Sep 02 00:33:12 * shaunmcdonald knows he shouldn't have said that Sep 02 00:33:39 * shaunmcdonald remembers that he start 4th year university in October Sep 02 00:33:53 * shaunmcdonald so will have less time from then Sep 02 00:33:57 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: but we really value that. In fact I think we should have one contact for web related stuff anyway... Sep 02 00:34:08 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: nah, uni... Sep 02 00:34:13 ebischoff_mac okay, going to bed Sep 02 00:34:25 ericb2 no question about strategy ? No suggestion ? Sep 02 00:34:30 shaunmcdonald one thought about the blogs Sep 02 00:34:45 ebischoff_mac hopefully with a fresh build awaiting me when I wake up ;-) Sep 02 00:34:52 shaunmcdonald with blogger we can have one blog where many people are able to participate Sep 02 00:35:01 shaunmcdonald so why not get that setup Sep 02 00:35:18 ericb2 this will look like planet2 Sep 02 00:35:23 ericb2 no ? Sep 02 00:35:31 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: OOoPlanet is IMO better, yes. Sep 02 00:35:32 shaunmcdonald so that all the developers can submit articles and everyone has only one blog to look at Sep 02 00:35:49 schmidtm ericb2: I can only speak for myself here, but I'm at an much to eary stage to think about something like strategy... Sep 02 00:35:56 paveljanik but of course we can set up Mac aggregator too, but Planet is IMO better. Sep 02 00:35:57 ebischoff_mac is that a wiki ? ;-) Sep 02 00:36:06 schmidtm s/eary/early/ Sep 02 00:36:14 shaunmcdonald I know blogger, if anyone has a better bit of software, then go ahead and suggest it Sep 02 00:37:01 ericb2 schmidtm: the topic was proposed by Pavel, and a bit me. I don't think ths is too early: we can improve our efficiency if we are better organized Sep 02 00:37:48 shaunmcdonald I see ooo planet, though no option to view only mac development? Sep 02 00:37:53 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: I hope we will see the splashscreen on every start tomorrow :-) Sep 02 00:38:09 ebischoff_mac yes so do I Sep 02 00:38:27 paveljanik ebischoff_mac: Thanks and good night. Sep 02 00:38:28 ebischoff_mac ok, jetzt ins Bett Sep 02 00:38:33 ericb2 at all : as AI, I ask everyone present to complete the array I started on my page, mainly the "WHAT" topic Sep 02 00:38:37 schmidtm ericb2: yes you are basically right - one has to be orginzed (what else should i say, I'm german). But you also have to keep the balance between work and mhm you might call it meta-work. Sep 02 00:39:04 ebischoff_mac paveljanik, thanks Sep 02 00:39:33 ericb2 schmidtm: we currently have no clear idea about who does what Sep 02 00:39:35 schmidtm ebischoff_mac: Du kannst Deutsch??? Sep 02 00:40:05 ebischoff_mac nat?rlich... hab ich nicht gesagt, dass ich in Strassburg wohnte ? ;-) Sep 02 00:40:13 ericb2 schmidtm: er kommt from straüburg ;-) Sep 02 00:40:25 schmidtm ericb2: for me it's pretty easy: I take away yours and pavels time to get the build done.... Sep 02 00:41:14 paveljanik this is why we have online comm. forum - everyone can ask - either for build issue or to get idea who is working on what. Sep 02 00:41:16 schmidtm ericb2: ... and create some decent documentation, that others can benefit from it. Sep 02 00:41:26 paveljanik the first part of the meeting was a bit more productive ;-) Sep 02 00:41:50 ericb2 Point 5: misc Sep 02 00:42:07 ericb2 misc questions ? Sep 02 00:42:14 paveljanik I ;-) Sep 02 00:42:15 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I think point 3. is important Sep 02 00:42:27 shaunmcdonald re packaging Sep 02 00:42:29 paveljanik Apple: when you'll finally release Merom based MB Pro? ;-) Sep 02 00:43:02 ericb2 no echo ... Sep 02 00:43:17 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: latest rumour, special delivery for you at ooocon Sep 02 00:43:25 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: ;-) Sep 02 00:43:47 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: that would be brilliant! I even am moving some money to my travel credit card so I can pay for it there ;-) Sep 02 00:44:10 ericb2 Next meeting : same hour, friday 8th september ? Sep 02 00:44:17 maho_ +1 Sep 02 00:44:23 alexispigeon +1 Sep 02 00:44:26 fheckl +1 Sep 02 00:44:26 ericb2 see Sep 02 00:44:28 shaunmcdonald ericb2: I still need a decision on the packaging Sep 02 00:44:28 ericb2 you Sep 02 00:44:29 ericb2 soon Sep 02 00:44:44 ericb2 shaunmcdonald: please tell us what you mean Sep 02 00:44:44 shaunmcdonald I want to clear up some of the issues Sep 02 00:44:51 shaunmcdonald that are lurking about Sep 02 00:44:54 paveljanik -1. This is day before OOoCon. I'll probably not be able to join/talk that long ;-) Sep 02 00:45:13 shaunmcdonald currently there is drag and drop install Sep 02 00:45:14 paveljanik which reminds me I have to prepare my presentation ;-) Sep 02 00:45:20 paveljanik shaunmcdonald: yes. Sep 02 00:45:28 shaunmcdonald and there is an issue for moving to .pkg install Sep 02 00:45:47 shaunmcdonald what do we want? .pkg install, or drag and drop install Sep 02 00:45:48 paveljanik yes, but we have not yet decided. We need to know facts - pros and cons. Sep 02 00:46:07 shaunmcdonald paveljanik: so we need a list of pros and cons Sep 02 00:46:26 shaunmcdonald then we will make a decision? Sep 02 00:46:31 paveljanik yes. Sep 02 00:46:45 shaunmcdonald ok another action item then Sep 02 00:46:54 paveljanik I think this should be opened and we should do everything we can to make it easier in the future to decide... Sep 02 00:47:28 alexispigeon what about the separate mac-dev mailing list? Sep 02 00:47:33 ericb2 paveljanik: who is currently working on bundle issue with native ? Sep 02 00:47:55 paveljanik ericb2: none. Oliver is doing AFP and will work on it after it. Sep 02 00:48:06 shaunmcdonald I think the only reason we should move to .pkg is for small updates, and I think we may need to check remote install with ARD Sep 02 00:48:17 ericb2 alexispigeon: it was voted, and I still didn't create it. Since some times, they are less newbie quesiotns, but I can be wrong Sep 02 00:48:21 ericb2 paveljanik: thank's Sep 02 00:48:41 paveljanik ericb2: yes, people ask on users@... Sep 02 00:48:56 paveljanik I think the current status is almost perfect. Sep 02 00:49:10 alexispigeon member:ericb2 : oops, sorry for the noise then. it is on in agenda though, that's why i was asking Sep 02 00:49:24 ericb2 alexispigeon: no problem, really Sep 02 00:50:21 ericb2 BTW, I have counted around 16 people on this channel this evenong ! Sep 02 00:50:25 ericb2 evening Sep 02 00:50:35 ericb2 o is close to i :-) Sep 02 00:50:59 ericb2 Next meeting, when ? One day before ? Sep 02 00:51:46 paveljanik there were many votes for Friday, so Friday again. I have to live with that ;-) Sep 02 00:52:05 ericb2 => Next meeting : same hour, friday 8th september Sep 02 00:52:11 paveljanik we are departing after lunch, so I can sleep in the morning ;-) Sep 02 00:52:26 maho_ paveljanik: thanks! Sep 02 00:52:29 ericb2 good night ! Sep 02 00:52:42 maho_ Good night ! (for me good morning!) Sep 02 00:52:46 maho_ thanks all Sep 02 00:52:49 schmidtm thanks everyone! Sep 02 00:52:54 ericb2 maho_: have a nice day Sep 02 00:52:55 * maho_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.8/20050511]") Sep 02 00:52:57 alexispigeon good night all Sep 02 00:53:08 * schmidtm has quit () Sep 02 00:53:17 paveljanik we were under 2 hours! Great. getting better :-) Sep 02 00:53:20 paveljanik Good night! Sep 02 00:53:43 paveljanik I hope to read some interesting blog entries on OOoPlanet tomorrow :-) Sep 02 00:53:45 fheckl good something! Sep 02 00:54:05 * fheckl (n=florianh@p213.54.215.185.tisdip.tiscali.de) has left #ooo_macport Sep 02 00:54:08 paveljanik fheckl: I'm waiting for your feedback ;-) Sep 02 00:54:10 paveljanik late ;-)